Author Topic: January 6, 1942 - tragic wartime incident on the Adur  (Read 7620 times)

dave1212

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 04:00:08 pm »
Police Sergeant Jones' Report

dave1212

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 06:36:10 pm »
Our Regimental reunion is being held this weekend & I will be forwarding the information you all have kindly shared. It is so important we remember.

Semper Fidelis

Spinalman

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 07:17:57 pm »
What a sad tale.

I looked up Goatley boat - here is an image.

Likewise I have linked to a 1946 aerial image that shows the lie of the land - the river was not swollen in the image, and you will see the road has a different track.  The rail tracks were twin in those days.
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/geography/researchprojects/sussexairphotos/1940/16-5098.jpg

I have put the RV point for reference:
Spinalman

Nelson

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2018, 12:34:35 pm »
Of course Ė just realised our wartime map has the old co-ordinates and applying 639269 as 63.9 west/east by 26.9 south/north gives a rendezvous point Iíve marked in yellow. Dave quotes this as the river bank reference point and give or take a few yards for the inaccuracies of my illustrations it looks like that confirms it - just the other side of the road to Spinalman's RV. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 12:53:48 pm by Nelson »

Spinalman

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2018, 12:48:07 pm »
Hi Nelson,

That is interesting.  Do you know the sheet number of the map you are referencing?   The map sheet reference should be sheet 133. The 6 digit grid reference should have a prefix, depending on the scale and date of issue of the maps ( I think in the 60's it was TQ for our area) but for wartime the map prefix that I researched was wQ http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/grillesj/britishcassini.htm  and it was that I applied to a online conversion tool http://www.fieldenmaps.info/cconv/cconv_gb.html  to give lat/lon- and that then equated on Google maps to the Erringham track.  However, yours is a plot that is much closer to the river, although still the wrong side of the railway track.  So it would be good to get confirmation of accuracy.

If you use the conversion of the wQ639269 as WGS84/ETRS89 Reference for GPS & online maps of the British Isles GPS-compatible then the plot is the same as yours Nelson (see image below)   Lat 50  51  23.7222 N Lon  0 17 28.3212

however if you adopt: OSGB36 used as graticule markings on Ordnance Survey maps of Great Britain then it places it 400 yards East on the track from Erringham.  If this is incorrect then my speculation of their march route over the downs is without substance.

Whichever the correct plot, I would imagine the river bank launch point would have been dictated by where the advance party had found a good place to beach the assault boat on the East bank - presumably at lower tide.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 01:47:25 pm by Spinalman »
Spinalman

Nelson

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2018, 01:14:35 pm »
Unfortunately I was only given the Shoreham part of the map for use with the Action Officers Minute Book research so donít have the border/edges of the complete map that provides the reference letters and numbers. I can ask for them but that will take a some days for response, nevertheless as you say it would be good to be more sure. 
(Edit - have since seen your updated post which tells us what we wanted to know anyway and, as you say, they would have chosen the best point nearest to that for using the boats. Your1940's aerial shot does show a convenient spot very close by - I tried searching for a site that provides tide times for that day in 1942 but didn't find anything)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 02:06:12 pm by Nelson »

Gerry White

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2018, 06:04:14 am »
     In 2008 I wrote a Poem about the Adur Valley and the view from Mill Hill


     A nineteenth century Vicar
     A mighty vision he
     To build a Splendid chapel
     That's seen from out to sea
     It stands above the Adur
     That flows from out the land
     Panoramic Perfection
     Describe it very well
     And from Mill Hill the sight is still
     A picture made by god
     A silver sea, the Airport
     And bridges one two three
     That carry traffic East to West
     And then the other way
     All visitors to the area
     Completely all agree
    The view from the Hill is marvellous
    The best there is to see.
   

       I was born in Old Shoreham in 1938, and so have much to be thankful for'
       particularly the Canadians of the West Nova Scotia Regiment, who came to Shoreham
       to fight against NAZI tyranny, and bring an ultimate peace to Europe.
     
       It may be worthy of note that the location of the  tragic incident is traditionally called
       Cuckoo Corner only 100 metres away The vicar I referred to is Rev Woodard BA the
       Photo shows Lancing College Chapel ,
       
   

 
   
     
   
   

johnjohn

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2018, 08:19:12 am »
Dave,I am a little confused about the West Novas Regiment,did they have French Canadians in their ranks?
The troops I can remember were definatly French Canadians or was this the next contingent based here possibly for the Dieppe raid ?

In WW1 there were a lot of Canadian troops based in Shoreham, encampted on the Downs,one of them married one of my maternal Aunts,survived the war and settled in Toronto,later followed by another Aunt and an Uncle also heading for Ontario.
Unfortunatly two of their Brothers are still somewhere in France.
Johnjohn

Spinalman

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2018, 10:51:00 am »
Reading the regimental war diaries in detail it appears they were based in various billets in Worthing, but I can't find any reference to Shoreham.  So our supposition that they marched from Shoreham is speculation.  I assume there were very many Canadian contingents in Shoreham and surrounds, and that they moved frequently.
Spinalman

Nelson

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 12:11:05 pm »
Just picking up again on the coordinates - I donít think they were ever always completely accurate. Iíve reviewed the ones given in the Action Officers Minute Books (wartime incidents in the area) to pick out those where it is possible to identify more or less exactly where the incident site was and compared that with the map coordinates noted for the incident. Unsurprisingly this reveals some discrepancies between the two.
For example, we know that the bomb that fell on St. Richards Street, Fishersgate demolished number 16 there. Compare that with the map coordinates given and you can see a difference.
Repeating the exercise for three other examples where the exact site is known shows similar discrepancies (some by up to two-tenths of a grid square) and these have been entered in red on the Erringham area map using the original yellow coordinate 639269 as the marker. They all vary in their distance and direction from the marker but one of them hits the river bank very close to the point we reckon was the boat launching spot.
Coincidence I suppose as they were never likely to be that precise.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 12:27:15 pm by Nelson »

dave1212

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 06:42:27 pm »
Sorry I was away from the computer for a couple of days.

French Acadian history & culture are woven into the tapestry which makes up Nova Scotia. Many with Acadian heritage served within units from the Maritimes.

I mentioned earlier the two other infantry units along with the West Novas that made up the 3rd Infantry Brigade, 1st Canadian Division; Carlton & York Regiment & the Royal 22nd.

The Carlton & York Regiment is based in New Brunswick, the only officially bilingual province in Canada so many of it's members, like the West Novas would have spoken French as their first language.

The Royal 22nd Regiment from Quebec is entirely French Canadian.

The 1st Canadian Division left for Sicily in July 1943.

The 2nd Canadian Division were involved at Dieppe. The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada & Le Regiment de Maisonneuve in the 5th Infantry Brigade, 2nd Canadian Division were French Canadian units as was Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal 6th Infantry Brigade, 2nd Canadian Division.

Thank you for all the replies.

johnjohn

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 07:19:29 pm »
Thanks Dave,
I did not realise that some regiments had mixed French and English speakers.
Johnjohn

Gerry White

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2018, 08:06:08 am »
 Just like me John John  Good English, and very bad French . Worse than Churchill whose French was notoriously  poor.   On V E day in Shoreham High Street, I spoke to a number of Canadians  who all spoke English, but they borrowed my Union Flag, and gave it back later. with 2/6p ..for luck.

johnjohn

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Re: January 6, 1942
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2018, 10:43:20 am »
Hello Gerry,I don't know about my English, it has atrophied a bit since retirement but in French the vocabulary is very weak but the pronounciation very good due to watching many episodes of 'Allo,'Allo
Johnjohn

Gerry White

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Re: January 6, 1942 The French Language
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2018, 02:00:14 pm »
 Just like Mon Dieu, or Sacre Flipping Bleu mon frere